From what I understand Mary sues and Gary Stu's are... they are characters
that have several unbeatable or incomparable traits, unique attributes or
way too many talents/skills/knowledge a person of that age could have. In
the sample provided with the Star Trek simm, probably would have been best
not to accept the character as described. I can't really support 'snubbing'
a player's character because they lack the intelligence/knowledge given the
character...afterall, how many of us are experts in magic? Or Warp Drive
technology? OR even the latest theories on scientific evidence of God's
existence? I have written with players who don't know anything, or very
little about a subject but can still play a convincing enough
character...sometimes it is just a matter of helping them with good
reference material or suggestions so teh characters in game can actually
have interesting debates/discussions, even in general terms. Afterall, if
the player truly was multilingual and a professional scientist, would
anybody in the group even understand what her character was talking about
if she wrote in a typical science paper fashion?
Myself I have played characters originating from cultures I don't
personally know alot about...but I do my best to do some research to get
the gist of the characters culture and work it in, so the 'flavor' is there
but its not always 100% accurate. It is also a way to get me to actually
look into cultures and around the stereotypes. This is especially
challenging when the game is based in a time period not current, such as
one Harry Potter simm I am in which is based in the time of the founders,
so around the 990's CE. The game is far from historically accurate, but
given I have characters from different lands, it is quite fun to do the
research, even though I have made plenty of mistakes, mixing up current
trends to ancient ones...and there is not much info online regarding a few
topics which have plenty of reference to now.
The way I see things, I like to help players improve their writing skills
when possible. If they have bad grammar, sometimes just letting them know
where they are messing up will help, some players may not have English as
their first language, some players may never really received a formal
course in English grammar, or just used to talking/writing with heavy slang
from their local, which may not make much sense to the majority of other
players. As I am in games that have people from all over the world, not
just in North America, its easy to encounter 'culture shock' even from
players from other English speaking country (ie: the differences between US
culture and England. Even a common term/object like a fanny pack means
something completely different in the UK. To us in the US/Canada, its
basically a small pack you tie around the waist. The term 'fanny' usually
refers to the 'butt' here too, but in England, it refers to a woman's
private parts, in a vulgar way. So you can see how a player in the UK who
isn't that familiar with such a term as its used in North America, would be
completely confused or even offended by it. Another example, Pants... we
use it to refer to slacks, jeans, trousers and the like...in the UK, pants
basically means underwear. So saying your character goes out in public
wearing only a shirt and pants...would mean something far more scandalous
in the UK than here.
I am sure there are plenty of other examples but I think you all get the
idea here.
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 6:30 PM, jeandeschanel <jeandeschanel@gmail.com>wrote:
> **
>
>
> All I would say to that is that not all Mary Sues are created equal. Just
> throwing together a character with an unusual number of talents is nothing
> to surprise anybody, certainly, but some people go way, way overboard to
> the point where just calling it a pet peeve doesn't quite cover the problem.
>
> For example, in our ST simm we have a 24-year-old character who in
> addition to being a gorgeous multi-hyphenate genius is a senior lieutenant
> and Chief of Science. She speaks half a dozen languages, her Ph.D thesis
> was a mathematical proof describing the probability of God's existence
> (which of course she can't describe) and her sole 'weakness' is that she
> has limited social skills, which of course makes her so much more relatable.
>
> It all might be forgiven if the player knew much about science, wrote
> exceptionally well or even posted often. Instead many of us spend a lot of
> time writing around the character. Considering that our ship is intended to
> be a science vessel, it isn't especially enjoyable. If there weren't
> several good writers around to make up for him, the simm probably wouldn't
> be worth the trouble.
>
> But this is what most people would call a classic Mary Sue. It isn't just
> about multi-colored eyes or a pet unicorn. There are certain personality
> characteristics such players seem to possess in common - born out of what I
> assume is egocentrism or narcissism - that eventually lead to frustration,
> resentment and misunderstandings. They don't want to share a plausible
> reality; they need a reality that accomodates an implausible conception.
> Sorry, but I can't blame any GM for regarding that as a red flag.
>
> > On 4/2/12, Taryn Noelle <miss_taryn_noelle@...> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > My name is Taryn and I've been lurking here for a while watching the
> ads go
> > > by. I realize I am late to this discussion, but after reading the
> *many*
> > > posts about it I wanted to say a few things.
> > >
> > > I've been writing in the role-play universe for over a decade as both
> list
> > > owner and member. I know grammar, I know how to spell, and I feel that
> the
> > > characters I have created and written in the universes I have played in
> > > (sci-fi, sci-fi erotic, medieval Master/slave scenarios, one on one
> romance)
> > > are interesting to read and play off of. But after reading all of the
> things
> > > that annoy people I must say that I would be reticent to join *any*
> list at
> > > this point because I am certain I have done some of the things that
> annoy
> > > people. I'm sure that any neophyte players must be petrified by now.
> > >
> > > That being said I would like to say that there is a difference between
> "red
> > > flags" and "pet peeves". Red flags are things that can be a detriment
> to all
> > > players and thus, the story and finally, the list group as a whole.
> > >
> > > The biggest red flag in a world where people are writing is, people who
> > > can't write. I've seen a lot of ads come through here asking for
> experienced
> > > writers and demanding writing samples by people who themselves have
> > > misspelled the ad! That tells me (as an experienced writer), the level
> of
> > > experience and expertise on that list. Yes, we all make typos, but
> when I
> > > see the same word misspelled over and over in an ad, that is someone
> who
> > > can't spell and neglected to go over things with a spell checker.
> > >
> > > Another thing is characters who vanish, either with or without
> extensive
> > > bios. Unfortunately a list owner won't know a player is a flake until
> this
> > > happens. It has happened on a few of my lists. All I could do is
> refuse to
> > > take back said player.
> > >
> > > Everything else I've seen in the messages I've read (I haven't read
> them
> > > all) is pet peeves of individual list owners:
> > >
> > > Characters who have odd name spellings / characters who have mythical
> > > creature companions / characters who are invincible / characters who
> are
> > > Mary-Sue / characters whose character name and handle are the same /
> > > characters whose skill-set and history don't match / characters with
> sappy
> > > backstories / characters with vague backstories / crossover characters
> /
> > > characters with dual-colored eyes / the list goes on.
> > >
> > > These are NOT red flags. I mean, dual-colored eyes. Really??? If you
> can
> > > SPELL and write an engaging story I couldn't care less what color your
> eyes
> > > are.
> > >
> > > I agree that invincible/too powerful/all powerful characters are no
> fun to
> > > play off unless everyone is like that, but again, that is just my own
> > > personal preference.
> > >
> > > Me, I've used the same character name and handle - doesn't mean I'm
> stuck on
> > > myself. It just means I like the damn name. RP *is* wish-fulfillment
> to much
> > > extent. For some it's ability. For others it's an eye color. For me
> it's a
> > > name. We're all Mary-Sues too. Some people are more MS than others.
> Again it
> > > comes under wish-fulfillment which is what much of RP is.
> > >
> > > In my own experience, lists made up of 10 or less people are the most
> > > successful, especially if all the writers were friends in the first
> place
> > > because they are generally all into the same genre/fandom and they all
> have
> > > the same goals.
> > >
> > > I think these ads are wonderful, but courting strangers is the reason
> all
> > > these pet peeves are coming out because when someone creates a list,
> that is
> > > their universe and they have specific ideas of what they want to
> happen in
> > > their universe. Most strangers can never live up to what the list owner
> > > desires.
> > >
> > > My advice, for what it's worth and you can all take it with a grain of
> salt:
> > > look at the writing quality first, reliability second. Everything else
> can
> > > be worked out. Good writers are worth their weight in gold in the RP
> world.
> > > If you get a good one, keep them :)
> > >
> > > Taryn
> > > :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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