Hi, Chuck:
I'm coming late to the discussion, but here you go. I think we talked about a lot of these issues when I was down at the shop earlier in the year. We had to cut it short because you were meeting with a documentary crew, but as I recall, we covered many if not most of the good points that have already been made. So I'm really surprised that you're seriously considering this!
I haven't seen the new store setup yet, but in the old place, it sure looked like you'd have to sacrifice space for popular F/SF systems to be able to bring in much in the way of historical miniatures (other than Flames of War). So presumably you can spare the space now.
I don't have much useful advice, actually. Indeed, you're probably best listening to anything I say and then running as fast as you can in the opposite direction! But to add on to what you've already assessed:
>>> - WAB will be difficult for me to carry. I just did the math, and to import a copy of the rules and AoA would cost $105. I would then be lucky to sell them for what I paid to bring them in. VERY discouraging. I can SELL the HC rulebook and army list book for about $80 total and still make a normal profit.
Yep, that's a major negative factor for WAB, if the only way to make money on ancients is from the figures. Stuart set up a good distributorship for "Clash of Empires" using Brookhurst. I have no opinion to share regarding any others.
>>> - Even if WAB is a better game, it's not THAT much better. What I mean is that I think I can get HC to work as a game and as a product line. As you well know, we got WAB to work amazingly well at Cliff's store as a game, but it was a disaster as a product line, and he eventually had to drop it entirely (remember the the "Great Yellow Wall" of Foundry Figs he had?).
The Great Yellow Wall which I gleefully raided (and I think Jeff did too) when Cliff marked them down 40%, 50% and more? Yes, I think there's an important lesson there!
>>> - There are no "brand name" WAB figures, so it will be harder to establish as a product line in the store. Flames of War works for us because you have FoW figures, which stops most customers from going on the net to find alternative 15mm WWII figs. HC has a budding line of figs, so I can at least get some sales from that. The only way for any miniatures game to work in a store is for the store to make money selling the figs. It will be much harder to make WAB work because of this. As for medieval figs, most players I've talked to will just use GW Bret and Empire figs, at least at first. The Warlord fig line is very limited, so I'm looking to see what other lines I can carry. I'm in the process of setting up a wholesale account with Brookhurst, and I think they carry Foundry (though you won't see any "Great Yellow Wall" like in San Diego.
That sums it up pretty well. It's a pity that the typical hobby shop consumer is so brand-oriented, but there it is. Some of us who are pontificating have been able to accumulate massive collections independently, but you know your customers better! If you're thinking about carrying Foundry, I think you might want to look at some of the other contenders for quality 28mm ancients: Gripping Beast (including the Polemarch range of Successors, instigated by a Californian!), Aventine Miniatures, and Gorgon Studios (here in the US). You'd have to work out separate arrangements with each, I reckon, but each of these has superb figures that will attract gamers and painters. Unfortunately, Foundry seems to be working hard to cut back on their best ranges and alienate customers.
I suspect that trying to promote "big battle" classical-era ancients gaming through the store is a risky proposition. You might have a "flash in the pan" positive response, as in San Diego, and then have to watch it wither away. You don't want that.
Perry Miniatures' plastic and metal Wars of the Roses range provides some lovely figures for the period, and would be a natural migration for WHFB players, but the later medieval period isn't all that well supported yet by the major ruleset contenders, IMO. Pity.
If you were inclined to start smaller, with small or skirmish games using a few figures, there are a couple of options for semi-packaged ruleset and figure combinations:
- Gripping Beast has the "Saga" system out now for "Viking"-era combat, and have been producing plastic figure sets along with their comprehensive metal figure ranges to work with these. (As an aside: since Old Glory 15s stopped manufacturing Gripping Beast figures in the US a couple of years ago, GB might be amenable to working with an aggressive importer--and they have lots of classical ranges, too.)
- Two Fat Lardies are developing the "Dux Britanniarum" system for Romano-British and Arthurian battles, and Gripping Beast is making up pre-made army packs for it! TFL rules tend to be an acquired taste, and are not always conventional gamers' cup of tea, but the DB rules are pretty straightforward so far in playtesting.
In any case, I've cast my lot in with Stuart and "Clash of Empires". Good luck with whatever you opt to do. I'll try to get down again sometime soon and check out the new store--as soon as the winds die down!
Allen
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